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12g vs .223
12 gauge  38%  38%  [ 10 ]
.223 / 5.56mm  62%  62%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 26

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:04 am 
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Location: Austria
I can't totally dismiss the thinking of some European weapon instructors that the shotgun is overrated in terms of sheer stopping power. Hasn't Jim Cirillo reported similar dismal results of Buckshot?
Anyway, carbines like the Steyr AUG are simply the easier shooting (=higher hit ratio/follow up shot rate) platform to deliver stopping power. Anyone who has ever handled even a semi-auto shotgun one handed realizes this.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:06 pm 
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Location: West Union, Ohio
I don't even carry a shotgun in my cruiser or on SWAT. Anything Exept door breaching, I can do with a shotgun I can do better and more effectively with my AR-15. They are generally lighter faster handling and give way more range and precission.
I am not saying that a shotgun is outdated by any means but I think the rifle has it all over the scattergun for way more varied situations.
Plus, and I hate to use the way things look and intimidate as a factor, but many "bad guys" are really put back when faced with a decked out tac rifle. They feel they are now facing a dialed in operator instead of Barney with his deer gun. I know factually it may be BS but I have heard it from guys on the muzzle end more that once.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:01 pm 
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Location: upstate NY
C'mon people, lets cut to the chase and get rid of all the "ifs" and "ands".
When it comes to survival the shotgun wins hands down and you all know it!



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:29 pm 
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Location: Arlington, VA
Semi-auto 12 ga. with rifle sight - versatility plus.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:07 am 
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Killing time tonight, and revisiting a couple old posts. . . .

As far as the looks of a "decked out tac rifle" being more intimidating than my 12 gauge black Mossberg 590A1 w/ combat light and side saddle, I call urban myth. Of the few normal citizens (we're all weirdos by the way) who I allow to see my gun collection, more are "impressed" with my M4 but are more intimidated by my 12 gauge SG, and all assume it is by far the greater wounding tool.

Second, I also FEEL the increased recoil from my SG, but don't get bruised or marked up, and I shoot #1 Buck Magnum loads.



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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:11 am 
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Numero Uno for casa defensa is still the Rem 870P w Surefire X200 and 00 buck/slugs.

Mi case, su muertos.

And I like my nifty little Beretta CX4 Storm in 9 minimeter better than any AR/M4gery too! So there!


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 5:12 pm 
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The SG'ers who I have seen that get "abused" in the shoulder would do well to follow the simple tips I've heard from a couple LE Instructors - and it's probably universal: simply use the same type of Triangle/Isoscoles stance with a SG or a military rifle as most agree is the optimium stance for pistol shooting (or a slight modification of it). This allows the shooter of the SG (or M16/4) to square up to the target and properly achieve a good cheek weld and a perpendicular tight contact of the SG's stock with the shoulder, spreading the recoil more evenly. With my carbine I have noticed reduced muzzle climb during rapid fire, increased accuracy, and of course faster time back on multiple targets. So, if you feel abused by your SG or carbine, try your pistol stance.

Oh yeah, my modified triangle stance (with both eyes open) for SG/Carbine as well as pistol, also gives me better vision on a 180 degree course of fire with multiple targets popping up. With my M4 I put almost all of the steel pop up targets down quickly, but don't tell Todd I couldn't shoot the same course of fire (at a decreased range) worth beans with my pistol or he'll make me go to that week long humiliation pistol training course he recently graduated from as the only "advanced" student. . . . . "Bragger!" J/K, actually, congratulations Todd. At a score of 119, it sounds like you're close to the "Holy Grail" of, what was it? 125? You can read about it on his website: pitol-training.com



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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:13 pm 
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It was a 117, not a 119. :cry:

Managed a 121 once when I was there 5 years ago (shooting a highly customized P220ST). Ah, youth ...



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 Post subject: Re: 12g vs .223
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:20 pm 
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I'll take my Saiga 12 with muzzle brake and 20-round drum. Reliably shoots Federal LE 2 3/4" slugs to 100 yards into an 8" pie plate.
If I have to go much further out, the 3-9X scoped Springer M1A-A1 or the 16X scoped Browning 300 Mag will get the call.


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